The ‘Good Germans’ Among Us

The ‘Good Germans’ Among Us B25395 / Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:10:58 / “War on Terror”

‘Bush lies’ doesn’t cut it anymore. It’s time to confront the darker reality that we are lying to ourselves.

~ Frank Rich

The following “editorial summary”:

~ GWHunta

The tactics used by the U.S. military against Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib were neither effective for the stated goal of obtaining actionable intelligence, nor were they legal by prevailing international or even domestic standards.

These tactics were however, quite effective in terms of the unstated goal of inspiring a true hatred for U.S. troops amongst the Iraqi populace and fueling the then fledgling insurgency within Iraq.

Many, if not most of these detainees were innocent of any wrongdoing and were simply swept up, confined and questioned in a random search for information regarding the locations of weapons caches or insurgent activities.

As if this weren’t injustice enough, “trouble makers” were then further segregated, tortured and sexually humiliated.

There is simply no excuse for torture in any form, nor for continuing the support for a war of occupation and military aggression against a civilian population.

Justice, then Peace

As a news headline/summary: -40 ~ the management

RELATED ITEMS

Bush Writes Himself an Exemption to Anti-Torture Law Posted by anthony on Friday, January 6th 2006

“Torture is not US” Posted by anthony on Thursday, December 8th 2005

Abuse of Iraqi Prisoners ‘Was Sport’ Posted by ShiftShapers on Monday, September 26th 2005

No Wonder He Didn’t Condemn Torture During His 2004 Campaign Posted by dikweed on Wednesday, September 19th 2007

Editorial Advice From anthony Posted by GWHunta on Friday, March 17th 2006

RECENT COMMENTS

as I’ve said before, this space is for news headlines, not editorials. if you want to bring up for discussion, write a blog about it. thanks, the management

Peace,

GWHunta @ 10/15/07 14:59:55

People should just FN bugger off about the Germans — eSPEcially given how “good” the critical mass of little US citizens have been for the last 50 years. And. Foythamoah : ‘twas Nazi EUROPE, my friends — not just Nazi Germany — if you really want to stop shaming yourselves. We don’t want to use the words “denigrate” or “philistines” either (unless we’re referring respectfully to Palestinians). Silly rabbits.

microdot @ 10/15/07 15:21:16

There is nothing left to lose except whatever remains of our country’s good name. GWHunta @ 10/15/07 15:21:52

It is true though, that the United States can start to see how Nazi Europe might have happened — by looking at ourselves more closely in the mirror.

microdot @ 10/15/07 15:26:31

Get this — about 250,000 holocaust survivors live in Israel and about a third of them do so BELOW the poverty line. To help them out, knock me over with a feather, Ehud’s gonna give ‘em $20 bucks a month each, until he runs out of his $343 million USD grant (they’re thinking it’ll take 70 years — holocaust survivors). What is it, exactly, that sounds so uber fishie about that?

microdot @ 10/15/07 16:05:17

NYT, quelle surprise!

microdot @ 10/15/07 16:06:42

I have a good German From Hell story though . . . momentito, I find it.

microdot @ 10/15/07 16:29:59

There are a few complications, quelle surprise, The Killer Countess (good “German” from Hell) in question was “Swiss”. In quotes. Courtesy of Les Anglais. Noone does quotes like Les Anglais. It’s a sure sign of Oxbridge In The House. Al Jazeera loves ‘em. But. In this case, we’re talking about The Independent. So but anyway, I’m not sure what came before the Hungarian nationality that preceded the Swiss one although it looks like there’s an Austrian one thrown in for good measure. There’s more to this story than meets the eye, maybe I’ll spring it on the G, maybe I’ll be too busy. Enjoy. The killer countess: The dark past of Baron Heinrich Thyssen’s daughter She was born into one of Europe’s most powerful dynasties. And involved in a wartime atrocity so shocking that it remains shrouded in secrecy to this day. David Litchfield investigates the dark past of Baron Heinrich Thyssen’s daughter Margit Published: 07 October 2007 by The Independent.

microdot @ 10/15/07 18:31:34

OPEN QUOTE (from the Frank Rich find) The gunmen who mowed down the two Christian women worked for a Dubai-based company managed by Australians, registered in Singapore and enlisted as a subcontractor by an American contractor headquartered in North Carolina. END OF QUOTE I didn’t know that. Good information. Very useful.

microdot @ 10/15/07 18:43:38

The good name is gone, dude, and there remains quite a bit more to lose.

microdot @ 10/15/07 18:48:22

Our souls. GWHunta @ 10/15/07 19:30:50

It is true though, that the United States can start to see how Nazi Europe might have happened — by looking at ourselves more closely in the mirror. On this I completely agree.

alexander @ 10/15/07 21:06:48

Democracies do not devolve into dictatorships on the orders of tyrants, but by the actions of the cowards that carry them out.

Sometimes no Peace

GWHunta @ 10/15/07 22:58:15

Democracies do not devolve into dictatorships on the orders of tyrants, but by the actions of the cowards that carry them out.

Hate to point this out, but the act of taking a functional society and transforming it into a dictatorship isn’t ever done by the nicest of people, but it’s hardly something that can be done by cowards…

Truthcansuk @ 10/15/07 23:38:04

Define if you will cowards.

Those that will knowingly compromise the values and rights of others and misuse their own professional authority in the performance of their duties in order to fulfill the illegal and immoral demands placed upon them by the tyrants in power.   Tearing down the rule of law and the rights granted to each individual by both the rule of law and those recognized as inalienable human values is the ultimate act of cowardice.

Equal justice is the bedrock of civilization.

When justice is for sale and unavailable to those lacking the resources to afford it, the moral genocide has begun and the physical genocide is soon to follow.

Your experience and understanding in these matters is seemingly thus far theoretical. Mine is real.

Sometimes no Peace

GWHunta @ 10/16/07 08:36:57

God, sometimes I wonder how I lived without reading this funny ass shit…

misanthropic @ 10/16/07 09:33:15

Enjoy your laugh. I live a mile and a half from a maximum security prison where every cell has the built in capability to be used as an individual gas chamber, or a whole wing, or the cells in an entire unit, by design.

I watched it being built from the ground up, searched every nook and cranny before it opened and worked in it for the first seven years of its operation.

And along with other housing unit staff rehearsed the necessary procedures to isolate the airflow to and from individual cells multiple times as required by policy. A lot of additional tax payer money was expended to include these features within the original design.

Read the U.S.A. Patriot Act and some of the subsequent legislation that has come down the pike since and then realize that this particular institution is one of many.

What does it take to be defined a “terrorist” in the event of a national emergency?

What are the potential penalties? Who would conduct the trials? And where?

In Michigan, Corrections Officers, who also write the misconducts, hear the minor misconduct cases and decide their outcomes. Other non-uniformed MDOC staff are dedicated for the hearing of major misconducts. Rooms were designated for this purpose and designed into the facility, with plenty (as of 1997) unused space for expansion.

In the event of marshal law, the physical plants are already in place for the dispensation of “justice” to maintain the civil order with either civilian and or military courts, state police supplemented with national guard troops and state department of corrections staff and infrastructure.

Sometimes no Peace

GWHunta @ 10/16/07 10:04:48

There is simply no excuse for torture in any form, nor for continuing the support for a war of occupation and military aggression against a civilian population. ~ GWHunta

GWHunta @ 10/16/07 10:10:44

There’s an old saying in the MDOC, “What comes round, goes round.”

Peace,

GWHunta @ 10/16/07 10:10:58

The gas chamber prison scoop is quite ghastly thank you very much. I’ve heard of The New Prisons being built in Turkey by US and European architects — F-Type prisons. I don’t know if they’re the same ones you’re talking about. Maybe you could have a look see. I posted a series of two essays on the subject here, as a matter of fact. Back in December 06. Turkey Part 1 — Intro to Turkey’s F-type Prisons and their uses This is the one that talks about attacking prison populations ( primarly comprised of political dissidents ( in Turkey you can get arrested for even mentioning the Armenian genocide)) with Gas. Turkey Part 2 — Part 1 continued

microdot @ 10/16/07 12:26:14

You talk as though there once was a just civil society but I don’t think we have a record of one. Do we? The United States, with our fancy constitution, was built from the ground up with slave labor and pirated commodities. Those people that Our Founding Fathers declared to all be equal were all white male landowners. That’s what they meant when they said Men. Propertied White Males. We’re not reverting back to something beyond which we’ve already progressed. Whatever else we may be doing.

microdot @ 10/16/07 12:30:18

GWhunta – Your experience and understanding in these matters is seemingly thus far theoretical. Mine is real.

Aww… now the scientists on this site are probably going to quote this line back at you whenever you try and discuss Global Warming… Doesn’t seem fair… Doesn’t seem right…

Truthcansuk @ 10/16/07 12:38:11

QUICK RECAP

Junta — Democracies do not devolve into dictatorships on the orders of tyrants, but by the actions of the cowards that carry them out.

Tcs – Hate to point this out, but the act of taking a functional a functional society and transforming it into a dictatorship isn’t ever done by the nicest of people, but it’s hardly something that can be done by cowards…

END OF QUOTES

Tyrants don’t typically “carry out” the dictatorships over which they preside. Perhaps what Junta is saying is that tyranny gets ahead because people fail to stand up to them. They succeed because the people with guns stand to gain something. Like money. Lots of it. Nazi Europe, my friends, was an economic recovery program and so is the genocide in Iraq.

microdot @ 10/16/07 13:05:27

Truthcansuk, No disrespect intended. But your world view changes when you’ve been repeatedly victimized by a system you risked life and limb to support.

As for my opinions regarding scientific theory, the “scientists” on this site are no more qualified climatologists or atmospheric scientists than am I.

Unfortunately most fields of scientific inquiry have become so specialized that once outside their own myopic field of study, most scientist are no better at discerning the forest from the trees than is the typical layman.

Seems as though you choose to gloss right over the aspects of the internal security system within these United States and the possibility that the slide to the far right will almost certainly result in genocide.

Hard to call what is currently going on in Iraq anything but.

Peace,

GWHunta @ 10/16/07 18:01:46

Hunta – Truthcansuk, No disrespect intended.

None taken, GW. None intended on my part either.

Unfortunately most fields of scientific inquiry have become so specialized that once outside their own myopic field of study, most scientist are no better at discerning the forest from the trees than is the typical layman.

You could be right… I’ve met one of them in real life, and he seemed pretty sharp, though…

Seems as though you choose to gloss right over the aspects of the internal security system within these United States and the possibility that the slide to the far right will almost certainly result in genocide.

There’s always the possibility, although i wouldn’t qualify it as ‘almost certain…’

Hard to call what is currently going on in Iraq anything but.

I actually don’t consider what’s going on in Iraq as a genocide. But then, I disagree with the definition as set forth by the UN…

Truthcansuk @ 10/16/07 18:09:18

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